Home > Podcast > Episode 36 – Software Engineer vs Gardener and are .NET programmers really Inferior?

Episode 36 – Software Engineer vs Gardener and are .NET programmers really Inferior?

In today's episode, Jason, Justin, Guillermo and Craig discuss:

  1. We announce our 500th Twitter follower!
  2. The TIOBE index came out with a new edition, Java, C++ top the charts
  3. Expensify CEO remarks on developers who list .NET on their resume will not be hired, or will be scrutinized heavily for that reason
  4. Craig hates the title "Software Engineer", well apparently Chris Aitchison does too, but for different reasons. Are we Engineers or Gardeners?
  5. The Hudson CI build server transfers to the Eclipse Foundation
  6. Our thoughts on the Sony PSN breach
  7. Listen here:




About the Author

Craig Tataryn started his career as a Visual Basic programmer, but don't hold that against him! The system he helped create was a cutting edge, n-tiered revenue collection system whose transactions per second metric was off the charts! Around the year 2000 he discovered Struts and never looked back. A professional Java developer for close to a decade, Craig has worked on a wide variety of projects ranging from Recruiting, Purchase order, Revenue collection and Mortgage systems. More recently Craig has written web services for children's educational toys and has honed his skills on Wicket, SOA and iOS application development. "I love to learn and more importantly I love to teach. Hoarding knowledge is one of the most petty and selfish things you can do, especially as a contractor. This is why I always make it a point to document and share my knowledge with my client's employees"


  1. Holger
    May 24th, 2011 at 18:23 | #1

    Hi Guys,

    Love your podcast but I’m having a little problem with your podcast rss feed in receiving this epp.

    I’m usings a program called “Podcaster” on the Iphone (I don’t like itunes) and it comes up with the following error.
    “NSXMLParseErrorDomain error 9″

    I’ve run the feed through “http://validator.w3.org/feed/” and it has a few errors.

    Checking the XML, There is an invalid character in the url
    Hex value 1c before the http://

    Hope this helps.


  2. tommy jones
    May 25th, 2011 at 12:18 | #2

    Guys, I like your podcasts, but your discussion on .Net was full of inaccurate outdated facts. So I felt I should at least let you know. I was going to reference many facts, but you don’t need to look to hard to counter many of the facts you stated i.e. free IDE’s versions, open source support, etc..

    In short, Microsoft is doing a way better job than ever before at supporting serious developers by providing a strong development ecosystem.

    IMHO, the real image problem with .net is because it is the choice of the majority of corporate business application coders who tend to be the weakest of developers. When I look at what Microsoft has been doing since releasing .Net 10 years ago and considering the user community they have to support, they have been making huge improvements.

    Cheers, and keep up the podcasts!

    (occasional .Net developer)

  3. Holger
    May 25th, 2011 at 15:28 | #3

    Guys, especially Craig, you need to watch a show from the BBC called Grand Designs. The show is about the architecture and building of grand houses in the UK, but you see everything from when the ground is first dug up to the finished product (most of the time) and they let you know how late the project is (which happens pretty much all the time) and how much over budget (also pretty much all the time).
    Watching the show, you see analogies to the same issues that occur in Software development. Unforseen problems occur, customers keep changing their mind, which changes the design – sometimes radically, bad planning etc. You realize very quickly that software development is no different to construction development – in a very general sense.

  4. Lyle
    May 26th, 2011 at 07:33 | #4

    I enjoyed this episode quite a bit once I got past the TIOBE part. The TIOBE index has been widely discussed quite a while ago and roundly discredited as an accurate real-world ranking, at least in the circles I follow, so it made the resulting interpretations of the index rankings seem a little tedious.

    I enjoyed the .NET discussion because a lot of it rings true for me, though comment #2 above makes some great points. Many of the same criticisms, at least as far as developer competence goes, could be leveled at the Java community – there’s a huge base of apathetic developers using Java in a corporate setting who aren’t aware of much outside of what the boss says to use. Still, the image problem for .NET is pervasive. The .NET podcasts I listen to (good to have a rounded perspective!) perpetuate my stereotype that if even a prominent .NET developer can’t find it though File->New Project in Visual Studio, it’s not legitimate or doesn’t exist.

  5. May 27th, 2011 at 16:17 | #5

    Hi guys, I’m a big fan of your podcast, but like mentioned above you stated a lot of inacurrate stuff, from your point about .NET developers and the Jenkins/Hudson. I’m a java/scala/ruby developer but I work with some .Net coders, who are far, very far away from the caricatures you stated in the podcast. They’re real geeks who love good code and have a lot of tools, mostly fancies for that matter. Just because you have many journeyman programmers in the field doesn’t mean all coders are just like that.
    And about Jenkins, from my point of view and from the huge community who abandoned Hudson to join Jenkins, it’s a lot better than Hudson which let’s be honest has become Sonatype’s baby, by building their Hudson Pro offer above it. And just because you have many contributers whith different numbers of years ofexperiences of coding, doesn’t mean it results in a bad product. Jenkins is alive and kicking and talking smack about it isn’t fair.

  6. Danilo Mendoza
    June 1st, 2011 at 18:48 | #6

    I generally enjoy your podcasts. I’m writing this time just to note that, guys, please have some professionalism. Your podcast is being listened to by a number of people already so you’re working for an audience. I consider offensive in a show like this to use the term of “retarded” to qualify an idea.
    Other than that, keep on the good work.

  7. Hodor
    June 24th, 2011 at 21:37 | #7

    Danilo Mendoza :
    I consider offensive in a show like this to use the term of “retarded” to qualify an idea.
    Other than that, keep on the good work.


  8. October 5th, 2011 at 05:28 | #8

    I like this post.

  9. April 9th, 2012 at 07:41 | #9

    try my favorite Top 20 programming questions and it will differentiate Software Engineer vs Gardener and are .NET programmers :)

  1. June 11th, 2011 at 19:02 | #1
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