Home > General, Podcast > Episode 27 – Hudson, Oracle, Raible and AstyCrapper

Episode 27 – Hudson, Oracle, Raible and AstyCrapper

There is a bit of a kerfuffle going on between the Hudson Continuous Integration project and our friends at Oracle over a change in licensing and the trademarking of the name: HudsonCI. It has gotten to the point where there is talk of forking the project and continuing on without Oracle.

Creator of Hudson, Kohsuke Kawagochi is a former Sun/Oracle employee turned entrepreneur who has built a business offering support and services for Hudson. Kohsuke is brilliant (and not only because he uses the same WordPress them as us, props to iNove), his role at Sun/Oracle was in the JAXB department which takes a certain type of person to be able to function (re: smart).

It appears talks between Oracle and the Hudson committers are underway, which is good because the last thing Oracle needs at this point is more uncertainty in the community.

Also we ask ourselves what exactly can be made of this web-framework matrix which seems to have appeared from the ether at Devoxx 2010 from Matt Raible We voice our, how do you say... <strong/> opinions on the matter :)

And lastly Jeff Genender introduces us to, and demonstrates, a special piece of software which could cost the telemarketing inudstry millions ;)

Listen here:




About the Author

Craig Tataryn started his career as a Visual Basic programmer, but don't hold that against him! The system he helped create was a cutting edge, n-tiered revenue collection system whose transactions per second metric was off the charts! Around the year 2000 he discovered Struts and never looked back. A professional Java developer for close to a decade, Craig has worked on a wide variety of projects ranging from Recruiting, Purchase order, Revenue collection and Mortgage systems. More recently Craig has written web services for children's educational toys and has honed his skills on Wicket, SOA and iOS application development. "I love to learn and more importantly I love to teach. Hoarding knowledge is one of the most petty and selfish things you can do, especially as a contractor. This is why I always make it a point to document and share my knowledge with my client's employees"

General, Podcast

  1. December 6th, 2010 at 12:12 | #1

    Matt Raible puts together a really nice matrix based on his own opinions and hands-on experience and then you go off on how he should have a pet store implementation in each framework “proving” his grading to you and that not only should you not use his matrix, you should use it as toilet paper.

    I generally enjoy the podcast but in this episode I was saddened. You could have had an interesting discussion about the merits of various web framework but instead you completely miss the point of the matrix and wasted our time by cutting down a fellow developer and discouraging others from sharing their opinions with the community at large.

  2. December 6th, 2010 at 13:59 | #2

    @Todd Huss
    Perhaps you tuned out after my potty mouth, but we did talk a lot about various web frameworks and the future there of.

    Would like to hear your thoughts though on why you might feel this spreadsheet should be considered useful. Perhaps take Matt out of the equation, and let’s pretend *I* produced it instead. Would I not be held to account for how the metrics were gathered? Or should everyone just take my word for it?

    Maybe I reacted too closely to this: http://xkcd.com/386/

    But the article (and comments) over at Peter’s blog pretty much sums it up for me (and by “me” I means Craig, as I don’t speak for all the Basement Coders which is evident in listening to the podcast) : http://ptrthomas.wordpress.com/2010/12/04/comparing-jvm-web-frameworks-a-response-to-matt-raible/

  3. December 6th, 2010 at 14:46 | #3

    I agree it was stupid of me to publish the framework ratings without an explanation. I’ve attempted to fix that in the following blog entry.


  4. December 6th, 2010 at 14:50 | #4

    @Matt Raible
    Thanks for the response Matt; sorry for my poor use of language btw. I look forward to reading your entry.

  5. December 6th, 2010 at 14:55 | #5

    @Todd Huss
    BTW: nice blog, look forward digging through some of the articles you have there: http://gabrito.com/

  6. December 9th, 2010 at 13:48 | #6

    @craig rating web frameworks is always going to highly subjective. While I agree it would be nice to have a pet store app in each platform to compare, it’s ridiculous to expect one person like Matt to do that.

    If you can find someone that’s done a better web framework comparison matrix and released it to the public for free, then let’s see it. I just felt like it was equivalent to someone releasing open-source software and then instead of submitting patches and improving on it, you complain about how it doesn’t work for you. You did have some constructive discussion later on which was interesting.

    We’re doing a platform switch at work and Matt’s spreadsheet was really helpful for us to talk through the various frameworks and issues. The point, at least to me, is to take it, strip out the frameworks you’re not interested in, change the ratings you disagree with, and see where YOU come out. It’s not to view Matt’s word as gospel.

    FWIW I really enjoy the podcast and you guys do great work with it by taking the time and making it freely available so keep up the good work.

  7. GavinB
    December 12th, 2010 at 23:08 | #7

    Play replaces the servlet API with a Netty endpoint.

  8. December 23rd, 2010 at 09:39 | #8

    Just for the record, while Kohsuke started Hudson on his “own” time in the GlassFish team, he did start working full-time on it after a while. Oh and the code is MIT, not GPL. And of course Kohsuke now works at CloudBees (great move IMO!).

  9. January 4th, 2011 at 17:12 | #9

    Hi guys,

    Great podcast! I listened with interest to your discussion that “someone should write the Pet Store in each UI framework and then compare them”.

    As the author of an Open Source cross-UI-framework widget, I needed to demonstrate my widget running on lots of different frameworks. And because I wanted to demonstrate my widget, not the surrounding application, I decided to use the same simple (but not trivial) example application for each one.

    So I have written an almost identical app (not Pet Store, but not far off) in Android, GWT, JSF, JSP, Spring MVC, Struts, Swing and SWT. The code is readily available, well documented, and written to be easily comparable. Somebody just needs to do the analysis (of strengths and weaknesses, or lines of code, or whatever).

    You can download all the examples along with my project, Metawidget, from http://metawidget.org

    If you get chance to look at it, I’d be most grateful for your thoughts.



  10. January 11th, 2011 at 15:38 | #10

    @Richard Kennard
    Very cool! Will check it out.

  11. December 29th, 2011 at 03:23 | #11

    @Richard Kennard
    I understand that you would like someone to do an analysis on each one, but what was your overall experience building the app using the different frameworks? As a newbie, I am particularly interested in frameworks without a very steep learning curve.

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